I met Anna Grimes (née Reynal) at Hank’s in Windsor Park for a happy hour libation and a truly sparkling Shop Athlete Spotlight interview.  The frozen Paloma was refreshing, but the real tonic was Anna’s frank and thoughtful assessment of and appreciation for creativity. Our conversation ranged from her role as a photographer of our community to the unbridled sexiness of her dog Oso! 

Coach Chad: Let’s get this going!  So the way that I wanted to frame this conversation is: you’re now our community photographer!  Have you been enjoying it?  Has it changed your perspective on the community?

Anna Grimes:  Yes, it is really fun and I think it made me feel like even more a part of the community.  I’ve got to meet a lot of people I wouldn’t otherwise meet, because I have a very specific cluster of classes that I attend, so I get to meet people from other time zones-

Time zones?  Like Shop Standard Time, Shop Mountain Time?

*Laughing* No, like morning zone, afternoon zone.  You know!  I’ve got to meet a lot of the different coaches too.  It has just been really fun.  I enjoy it!

Have you learned anything about the difference in tone for the various classes?

I mean, I learned that even before I started photographing classes.  Every coach has a different flavor.

Which coaches do you typically have in your specific cluster of classes you attend?

Mostly Keith, some Dane, and a little bit of Bean.

Can you talk about the difference in the flavors of different coaches?

*laughing* I need you to note that I’m shaking my head right now!  Well, Dane and Keith know that I like to instigate between the two of them.

Oh!  And how do you instigate?

I just like to repeat the things that they say about each other the next time I see them.

Can you give an example of something Keith has said about Dane or Dane has said about Keith?

Wow!  I love that we’re just jumping in with this!

I told you that this conversation could go in any direction.

*laughing* I don’t know where it started, but the most recent thing was I told Keith that Dane thinks that he is smart and good at his job.

Oh!  So it was something nice you shared?

Yeah, because I thought I had gone a little too far in pitting them against each other.  And they are both so great.  You coach Strength, so you know Keith has a very specific way of doing things and sometimes when Dane subs for Keith he doesn’t completely agree with how Keith wants things done.  So I think it started when Dane gave me a note on my power clean and I told him it was different from what Keith said.

Well that is fine, because there is more than one way to skin a barbell!

Always!

Circling back to photography, when I prepared for my interview with (SAS nom from last year) Natalie Cincotta, I looked up her instagram page and she just had really dynamic and thoughtful photos.  So I asked her what draws her eye; what draws your eye Anna?

For personal photography, the thing that catches my eye most is going to be color.  I love to photograph movement, so doing photography at a gym is awesome for that.  Double exposures- I like to take things that seem like they might not belong together and smoosh them together.

That is super cool!  You’ve worked as a wedding photographer and a real estate photographer, is that correct?

Yes, I did weddings for 8 years and then we moved to Austin and I was burned out so I quit weddings and then the pandemic hit-

Oh yeah, that thing-

Yeah, yeah, that little thing.  It was kind of a forced detour.  My plan had been to work on building up a print shop; to take my personal work and put it in a place where people could purchase them to add colorful art to their house.  But the pandemic sidelined that because travel is an important part of my personal work.  So I picked up working at a company that did real estate photos and that was very boring.

So, aside from photography at The Shop, what is your outlet now?

I really miss working with other people, so I’m working on doing photography for other business owners, particularly individuals who are creatives.  I don’t know if Dane would call himself a creative, but I see a really creative spirit in the way that The Shop does things.  Particularly the mini-meets- you can’t tell me that Brains & Brawn isn’t a creative outlet.

He would probably humbly demure and say that he isn’t a creative, but he is.

Absolutely!  I use that word to describe anyone who has a creative spirit inside of them.  It doesn’t mean that you are a painter or you are a writer- those are great things- but I think there are plenty of other people who the label of “creative” fits.

That is actually a great transition because I also wanted to ask you about writing- I know you do that also.  Can you talk a little bit about that or talk about your larger artistic vision- what drives you?

That’s a fun question because I’m still ironing that out.  What drives me right now is figuring out how to allow myself and the people that I work with to feel free in whatever I’m working with them in or whatever I’m creating for them.  My writing right now is mostly journaling- writing about what my artistic vision for myself is and how to help others create.

That is really interesting.  Dane recently leant me a book on writing, Bird by Bird, and one of the themes it keeps returning to is the idea of creativity coming from sort of unclogging the pipes.

Yeah!  I think that is true.  Doing weddings, for example, my goal was to help people not feel boxed in by their time lines or that they have to do things a certain way because that is how it has always been done.  I want people to be able to do things the way they want to do them and also to have whatever I create for them to be an expression of who they are.  I think that applies to photographing The Shop too.  There is a desire in creative people to make something that feels like them, but when I’m working with someone I want to be able to create something that feels like an expression of that person or that thing.

So kind of creating a canvas for them to put themselves onto?  That is really cool.  I always like to get a little bit of background information in these conversations, so I was wondering if you could talk a little be about where you come from, but keep it through the lens of your artistry as well.

I grew up in Maryland. So… *laughs nervously* hmm.  I probably shouldn’t let my mom read this.  I grew up in a very religious environment and I thought that was what I wanted for myself because that is what my family wanted for me.  But I think part of why I got so burned out was I was spending so much time doing what other people wanted me to do and not following my own vision for myself- following rules that were set for me in that religious upbringing.  I think that is a huge part of how I grew up and then who I became is maybe a little bit of a reaction against that.

Were you already doing photography or writing when you went through that transition?

I was actually a musical kid- so I was in choir.  My major in college was music- ironically, my other major was leisure and sport management.  I wanted to be a wedding planner, which is how those two majors combined.  I’ve always enjoyed creating, but it wasn’t always photography.  The first thing I did with photography was when I was studying abroad in Italy I took a film photography class there and I think that set me on that path.  

Do you think that something about your art changed when you made the change to honoring your own path?

That is a really hard question to answer because it has been a lifelong progression for me.  I have a really strong autonomous streak and I think that actually shows up in the gym.  If I’m being told to push it in class, my upbringing means that my first reaction is that I need to push it, but that pulls me away from being able to listen to what is going on inside of myself and that is the thing I want to focus on.  So going to Italy was something that no one else wanted me to do- I’d never even traveled abroad.  This was also the time that I started to explore the world outside of my religious upbringing.  I didn’t connect the two at the time, but I think that trip and making that decision for myself made an impact.

Can you point to anything in that trip that influenced you as an artist?

Everything! How do you leave the culture that you grew up in and not be changed by that?  It completely changes the way you view the stories that you grew up with.

That is a great point.  It just gives you the power to challenge your assumptions I guess.  How did you end up in Austin?

That one is a boring story- my husband’s job.  We got here about a year and a half before the pandemic.

That is a good amount of time to get a feel for the city.  Prior to the pandemic, what did you gravitate towards?

I gravitated toward finding other people in creative communities- and not necessarily photography communities.  I wanted to play around with other creatives.  I think that creativity is very interesting *laughs* obviously! About six months before the pandemic a friend and I took a trip to Oaxaca and that was really cool- again getting to see a completely different culture.  They were celebrating Dia de los Muertos and noting the different way that that time of year is celebrated down there as compared to in the United States-

Ah, so you didn’t dress up like sexy bunnies?

*laughing* No we did not dress up like sexy bunnies!

Moving things towards talking about fitness, have you noticed anything about the interplay between fitness and creation?  For me, I do one longish run per week and I am always at my most creative after that.

That is what yoga was for me for the longest time.  The first time I photographed anything fitness related was at a yoga studio in Annapolis- that was before I even got my yoga teacher training.  There was something about photographing other people connecting to their bodies and then I did a trade with them so I took photos for them in exchange for classes.  So I took a lot of classes and I think that was my entry point into understanding that my body had a lot of things to tell me.  Yoga is more of a quiet form of fitness and I think there is a lot of benefit to that silence- to be able to hear what your body is trying to tell you.  I don’t think there is anything better or worse about yoga compared to cardio or strength training, but I do think that silence aspect was my way in to understanding that my body had a lot to say.

I like that observation!  Now that you mention it, I think it is a similar thing for me with running unclogging the pipes.

I think there is a lot of conventional thinking about meditation being silent and still.  Meditation doesn’t have to be completely still- I think you can be moving and also observing your thoughts with detachment which is the key to meditation.

That makes a lot of sense too.  As an actor, one of the tools for finding an authentic emotional space is using an activity to guide you into that state- not just telling yourself “I’m going to be sad now!”.  That is really interesting.  Please keep peppering in these sage observations.  I wanted to pivot to socializing.  One of the through lines with our Spotlight Athletes- and there are many reasons we nominated you-

Oh sure! *laughing* It’s because I’m the strongest person in the entire gym right?  *big laughter*

Oh yes!  You’re the strongest person and you’re also the hottest person-

Oh yes, lets keep going with the sarcastic reasons I got nominated!

People are saying that you are the smartest person at the gym, no one has ever been smarter than you, you and you alone are the most stable genius.  No, one of the through lines with the nominees is that they are often participants in or even in the center of the little sub-communities at The Shop-

Cliques?  Can we just call them cliques?

I feel like that word has such a pejorative connotation, but yeah cliques!  You’re in the doggie socializing clique.  Can you talk about how that happened?

Come on, who has a dog that hasn’t made a friend just because they have a dog.  Isn’t that the real reason to get a dog in the first place?

No, you got a dog because Oso is the sexiest dog in the world.  He is objectively perfect on an aesthetic level and I won’t hear otherwise!

*laughing* The actual reason was to be a guard dog.  My sister had sent me a picture of him and literally that night someone tried breaking into our house.  But he’s the worst guard dog ever!  We had a stranger in our back yard months later and Oso slept through the whole thing- he didn’t wake up until the cops showed up.

Well we know how he feels about the police then!  So you occasionally get together with other members who have dogs- who are some of your peeps?

Well, Oso picked Linus as his best friend, so Marc (long time member and resident stud muffin Sturdivant) and obviously you and your lovely wife and Bean.  Then there is this whole dog party so Janelle and Sara Abrams and Heather and I know I’m going to forget someone and I feel awful about that.

Who’s got the best dog other than Oso?

*Only half a beat of hesitation* Rimas.

Yeah.  Yeah, Islay is just awesome.  Who’s got the sexiest dog other than Oso?  As we’ve established, Oso is the sexiest dog- you’ve sent me so many sexy photos of him.

I think Whiskey is a pretty handsome dog (shouts to the good little boy who comes to class with Sierra!)

Yes Whiskey is a very good boy.  So you got a pool installed in your back yard over the pandemic.  Any pool plans with warm weather around the corner?

Um, open invitation to anyone who wants to use their big muscles to help me build my patio and then we can have a pool party afterward!

Alright- open invitation and I might take you up on that.  Just briefly, I wanted to ask how you ended up at Dane’s Body Shop?  How’d we get so lucky?

Google plus location!

Fair enough- what is your favorite style of workout?

Anything strength oriented which is not something I ever would have anticipated saying.

So that is a bit of an evolution for you as well?

Yes!  I definitely didn’t do a lot of weightlifting workouts before coming to The Shop.

Do you have a favorite lift?

The deadlift is definitely my thing.  It is the one that I don’t have to work as hard at to be good at- isn’t that everyone’s favorite though, the one they don’t have to work as hard at!

That’s true!  Okay, well I’m going to transition to some random questions.  The first one that I’m going to ask is: someone is making a movie of your life, who plays you? who directs the film? and what genre is the film.  You can answer any or all of those.

I’m going to come up with a way better answer for this when I leave!  I think it would be some sort of romantic comedy, but instead of me finding my perfect person it would be about finding my perfect way of creating.  Something like that.  Kind of a genre breaker in a way.  When I was a kid, someone told me I resembled Natalie Portman and who wouldn’t want Natalie Portman to play them.

I sure as hell would love her to play me!  Similar question, if you were a professional wrestler or in any situation where you needed entrance music, what would the entrance music be?

Something by Lizzo- probably “Juice”.  That is what Bean played for me during the Strong Person Mini Meet.  It’s my hype up music.

That’s great!  Which coach has the best music and which coach has the worst music?

Obviously Keith has the best music *Knowing look and a laugh*.  I don’t know who has the worst music, I’ve never been to a class where I can’t stand the music.  Since I was a music major, I can handle quite a variety of music listening experiences.

What is your favorite swear word?

Obviously fuck.  That is the one I was yelled at for saying as a kid.  Not even yelled at- mom was just like “I’m so disappointed in you”.  So now it is all I want to say!

And I all I want to DO!  Bahahaha!  I asked Grant (check out his interview as well) and his answer was “I try not to swear at all”.  I was like “come on man, that’s no fun!”.  If you were to fall into a toxic radioactive slurry, would you come out as a super hero or a super villain?

Hero.

Do you know what your power would be?

I’m pretty sure it would be something with fire or light- I don’t know what it would be exactly, but those are things I resonate with. I read a decent amount of fantasy, so I’ve actually thought about this question a lot.

Oh really?  What is your favorite fantasy story?

I’m currently reading the newest book by Sarah J. Maas.  She writes a lot of- well, they are sometimes called “sexy fairy stories”.

Ooohoo!  A little erotica?

There is a little in there.  They’re fun *giggling*.

I respect that, the woman I dated before Becca was quite the impressive amateur erotica writer.  It was fun.  

Did you help her research?

Naturally!  I’m a very collaborative person!  Okay, so you’re having a dinner party and you can pick 1-3 people currently living or throughout history to join you.  Who do you pick?

I actually had to write an essay about this to get into the honors program in college.  I’ve gone back and read that essay and it is unreadable!  The people I picked were so different than people I would pick now.  The person I’d want to have coffee with would be Taylor Swift.

That is a great answer.  Do you have a burning question you’d want to ask her?

I just want to know how she writes with such depth in her lyrics.  Lyrics are essentially poetry and anybody who writes poetry, I’m always amazed with the way they can convey so much emotion in so few words.  I can’t do that!  I’m such a wordy person.

I absolutely agree.  That economy of language is so impressive.  That is probably a good place to wrap things up.  So this is where I ask if you have any extra words of wisdom to impart.  I feel like you’ve been very wise throughout.  Think about newer members, maybe even members who haven’t joined yet.  They’re scrolling through the SAS! page on the website and they go “who is this Natalie Portman looking broad” and they click on your photo.

*laughing* My advice to myself is probably what I’d give to anyone else and that is “just show up”.  No matter how afraid you are or whatever your expectations are, just show up because that is all you can do.

It is remarkable how almost every Spotlight Athlete says that.  They are cliches for a reason.  I think that is because everyone has had that experience of something being hard and not being sure if they want to come back and then coming back a few times and realizing that it is hard and that is why you come back.

Yeah and I would say showing up is the way I’ve been able to connect with people- whether it is showing up to photograph a class or to participate in one, being there is the only way that I’m accomplishing my fitness goals yes, but also social goals on a daily basis.

Absolutely.  And I want to piggyback off of that; I kept my shit together relatively well during the pandemic and I think that was in large part because I had to be around other people because it was my job.  I had to coach, I had to see people every day.  Safe- masked when necessary and often outdoors, but I still had to be around people.  You took classes pretty much throughout right?

Yeah and that was a really hard decision at the beginning.  It felt like everyone on the internet mostly was saying that no one should go anywhere.  I feel like Dane’s handled the pandemic really really well.  I know it sucked for you guys to close down for those eight weeks or whatever, but you reopened when you were able and stayed open safely.  When the pandemic started, I felt like all of the relationships I had made in Austin started filtering away.  I understand why because everyone was trying to take care of themselves.  I don’t know that we would have stayed in Austin had I not had somewhere like Dane’s.

Well Anna- it is Anna right?

*laughs* Yes!  Two A’s and two N’s!

Fabulous talking to you.  Anna Grimes everybody!

Grant and I settled on a scenic hill overlooking the Moody Amphitheater in Waterloo Park downtown and enjoyed a couple hazy IPA’s and a warm conversation on a beautiful Sunday in February.  It wasn’t until the interview was almost over that I learned Grant’s incredible connection to that park!

Coach Chad: So you were doing our community workouts for a long time before becoming a member right?

Grant Dziuda:  Yeah, it was probably about a year.  A friend of mine, Renee, asked me to come with her and I really liked it, so I was a regular every Sunday community workout person.  

Yeah, I got to know you quite a bit before you ever even became a member.  Dane wanted to know if the only reason we got to have you as a regular member was because we stopped the community workouts when the pandemic hit.

No, no, I had joined before.  I joined January 1st right before the pandemic and signed up for 6 months at that point.

Was there something that convinced you to sign up for the regular membership?

I really liked (workout out at The Shop), but I had never paid that much for a membership.  I worked out at The Y for a long time and that is dirt cheap.  But I figured if I was coming 5-6 days a week, the price was worth it.

And you really do come 5-6 days a week?

Yeah!

And you work out at 5:30 or 6am right? I consider that to be a very clear manifestation of discipline- how do you maintain that discipline?  Any tricks to maintaining that regimen?

Not really- I’ve recently just realized that I’m naturally a very regimented and disciplined person.  It can actually be a little bit of a friction point with (his girlfriend) Kiani.  So I’ll sign up for all of my classes like a month out and cancel if I need to- it is just so rare that I cancel.

For those early morning classes, I’ll look at the roster the night before and try to figure out who is likely to sleep in and miss class and you’re one of those people that I never doubt is going to be there.  Now I don’t know a lot about your history, can you tell us just a bit about where you came from and where you grew up?

My parents both grew up in Detroit- both grandfathers worked in the auto industry, one for Ford and one for GM.  They had three kids in Detroit then they moved to St. Louis which is where I was born.

You’re like the midwestern version of a Kennedy!

Yeah I still follow all the St. Louis teams-

Did you follow the Rams to L.A.?  Were you jazzed about the Super Bowl?

Yeah, yeah, I understood why the would move.  Then we moved to the suburbs of Chicago.  I grew up the youngest of four kids- we’re all pretty close in age and we are still pretty close to one another.

I’m fascinated by birth order and how that effects how people turn out.  Do you feel like being the youngest affected you at all?  I feel like there were times when my little sister felt like she was chasing me, trying to live up to what I did.

Maybe when I was really young, but I know who I am and am happy with that- so I don’t feel the need to keep up with anyone else.  But going back to my parents, my dad hopped around to different sales time jobs and my mom worked as an aide in the local middle school- the same one I want to.  Yeah, she was at the same elementary school and then moved to the middle school when I did.  I had to cut her off from following me past that, “I know I’m your baby, but we’ve got to cut it off at some point!”.

Were they super disciplined?  Is that maybe where you got that trait from?

Not really.  I don’t know where that came from.  Maybe one place is that I played soccer my whole life and senior year I recognized that that part of my life was going to be over but I wanted to stay in shape, so I picked up track & field.  The coach we had for distance running was extremely disciplined; for that year he had a goal of running every single day- so like his “off” days would only be 3-4 miles.  If it would snow a foot during the day, he’d be out there shoveling the track so we could run.  So I think that might have had an impact on me.

How did that carry over to your time at (University of Wisconsin) Madison?

I just kept that same discipline.  I got recruited as a walk on for the rowing team, so that meant intense workouts every day.  Rowing on a rowing machine is very mentally draining.  

So soccer, track, rowing, and obviously what you do at The Shop- was there ever a period in which you weren’t athletically engaged?

Hmm… not really.  I should say that I studied abroad in Europe my Sophomore year in college-

And what were you studying again?

Civil Engineering.  I studied in Hungary and I looked into getting a membership, but I think it was just too expensive.  So for those 6 months I just didn’t really work out.  And it was drinking like five nights a week.  But you’re walking everywhere, so you’d think I’d come back with a beer belly but I actually came back weight less.  I probably had way less muscle though.  So yeah, without really even trying I was walking like 5-6 mile a day.

So beyond that illustration of the power of passive exercise, what else sticks with you about your time in Europe?  That is something I deeply regret- not doing a semester abroad.

The pace of life over there is so much slower.  Everything in the United States is just go, go, go. Over there the lifestyle is so much more relaxed.

Now earlier, you mentioned that Kiani is a little bit more laid back than you, do you think that is one of the things that attracted you to her- like reminding you of that slower pace to life?

It is less that she is laid back and more that she is a free spirit- more spontaneous than me.  I can be spontaneous and she draws that out of me.  Sometimes she’ll push me to do things that I don’t want to do initially and afterwards I have no clue why I didn’t want to do it.

Where did you two meet?

Oh we just met at a bar on the east side-

Wait?  People meeting in real life?  Not on an app?  This sounds insane.

*laughing*. Yeah we met in 2019.

One way of looking at the pandemic through the lens of relationships is that it separated the wheat from the chafe; that the couples who needed to break up, that is what finally pushed them to it and the couples that were strong got stronger.  You’re obviously in the second category right?

Yeah!  There were only brief stints of time where we were truly trapped at home together.  She is an ICU nurse, so there was no lapse where she had to stay home.  With my job, there was only a few weeks when I was home and that was before we moved in together.  So I guess to answer your question, it was different for us- we weren’t one of those couples who were locked in together for a long time.

Another question Dane had was when are we going to get Kiani at The Shop?

I don’t know- we’ve talked about it, but I think she just really likes the more cardio-based workouts.  I’ve done them with her also, but I just don’t like it as much as I like working out at The Shop.

Ooo!  This is a great opportunity for shameless self promotion.  What do you like most about working out at The Shop?

It may sound kind of strange, but I really like the yoga/stretching at the end of class because I never really stretched.  When I started learning new stretches, I’d feel better after the workout and I really liked that.  But also, I really like strength-based workouts- it gives me a goal and something to push myself toward.  I’m not trying to go to weightlifting competitions, it is just nice to have incremental progress.

That plays nicely into my next question.  Now that we’re moving from pandemic to endemic or whatever the case may be, one of the things that I’m loving seeing again is seeing people lifting together more.  Beyond using equipment in a more rational way, the socialization that happens when people lift together and the way they can give one another feedback and learn how to give feedback is really useful.  I’ve noticed you and Johnny Sullivan workout together quite a bit- can you talk about that experience a bit?  Maybe what you talk about between sets?  

We lift similar weights on a lot of lifts, so it is just easier to move between sets.  I always like to have someone spot me when we bench-

Yeah, it is always nice to not get crushed to death under a weight that is hovering over your chest.  So even beyond just Johnny, have you observed any benefits of working around him but also the group more broadly as opposed to a conventional gym?

Oh yeah!  That is one of the things I like most about Dane’s.  I think I just need to get out of the house to workout, so having a place where the workout is what I’m focused on.  Being told what to do for the workout is also really useful- just not having to think about what I’m going to do.

Oh absolutely!  I think I’ve mentioned it, but I religiously follow the Strength program because I want to have someone else’s programming to keep me honest.  I brought up Johnny, do you have any other folks you want to shout out?

I like my stock trading conversations with (coach) John and Doak (Embrey)-

John actually asked as one of his questions for you if you had any strategies for your stock portfolio that you’d like to offer?

*laughing* Oh, I don’t think I should be divulging that!  When I strike it rich, I’ll share the strategy.

Well that is fun!  Lets transition to some random questions.  I’m a big NFL guy, but I don’t follow college at all, so I have no idea what John was getting at, but he wanted me to ask, now that the SEC has basically become NFL lite,  do you worry about the future of The Big 10 and Wisconsin in particular?

Nope.  The Big 10 has been very competitive the past couple years.  I’m not worried- we have our brand.

If you were a professional wrestler or some other such person, what would your entrance music be?

Hmm… Is it the White Stripes- that seven nation something?  When that one comes on I always feel pumped up.

Seven Nation Army?  Yeah, that is a great choice.  What is the most ridiculous pronunciation of your last name- Dziuda?

I get a lot of “diz-wee-duh”.  I’ve gotten “dizzy-ooda”.  Lots of mispronunciations.  When I break down the correct phonetics for someone I say it as “da-zoo-da”.

You and Kiani just took a trip to Hawaii right?  What was the highlight of that?

We did the Pali Ghost hike- about ten miles with a mile of elevation gain.  At the end, it is just open beach with waterfalls and you’re just sitting in your tent staring out at the ocean.  It was a really intense hike so we just spent the next day on the beach doing just nothing. No cell service at all.  

That sounds incredible- that last part in particular.

Yeah, a couple did need to get airlifted out.  We were like the last people to make it in that day and this couple was showering in the waterfall and a billy goat kicked a rock from like 300 feet up and it hit this girl square in the leg.  So they had this emergency service plug in for the phone.

Well, goats are my spirit animal, so I feel really bad that happened.  Do you have a spirit animal?

I was asked this question at work a couple years ago and I said a hawk.

I think Coach Mark is also a hawk.  What about the hawk do you identify with?

Seeing the big picture and then when it wants something it swoops down and gets it.

What is your favorite swear word?

I don’t know.  I try not to swear- I do sometimes, but I try not to.

You fucking prude.  Goddamnit.  Shit… Alright.  You’re going to have dinner with any celebrity or figure from history, who do you pick?

That’s tough, I’m going to give you a couple.  The first one that comes to mind is Warren Buffet- he’s lived an interesting life and has a lot of knowledge I could learn from.  Whoever I sit down with, I’d want to learn from.  Steve Jobs is another one-

Okay, so you just want to spend time with a lot of really poor people?  Are you a cat or dog person?

Dogs!  Kiani had a dog that passed away right before we moved in and we will probably try to get one this summer. 

That’s fun!  What is the coolest place you’ve traveled to?

I traveled to Thailand for a volunteer trip right after I graduated- it was a village two hours north of Bangkok.  I thought I was just going to be doing construction, but it was a variety of things: touring temples, teaching english, going to an orphanage, a variety of volunteer projects.  Almost no one spoke english- there was a day we went to the police station and they brought their entire staff in and they wanted us to teach them english.  I don’t think they see english speaking people that often.  I also did a two week road trip in South Africa.  We flew into Cape Town, rented a car and did the entire south coast.  We drove through these incredibly rural villages- there was one night we stayed at a hostel in one of them and some guy there invited us to a party.  It was in this shanty town with metal huts people were living in and we were the only white people in this neighborhood party.  They had a laptop they were playing music off of and there was a shipping container people were selling beer out of.  They took us into the like “VIP section” that was inside with a pool table and drinks.  It was pretty wild.

South African VIP!  That is a special time in a young man’s life.  Well, the way that I like to wrap up these interviews is- because you’ve been elevated to this pantheon of athletes of the season- to ask if you have any words of advice for the community or maybe the next Grant Dziuda who is thinking of joining but hasn’t yet?

Consistency is key.

I like it.  Any other parting thoughts?

You didn’t ask me why I picked Waterloo Park!

I didn’t!  Why did you?

So I am switching jobs, but I worked for DPR and… well, I built this park and ampitheatre.

No shit?  You built this?

*bashfully* yeah.  I was responsible for basically where that concrete wall starts and everything to the north.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is what is called burying the lead.  We’re sitting in a park that Grant built.  That’s crazy!

M.J. and I connected for a couple St. Patrick’s Day libations at a surprisingly quiet Drinkwell near our Hyde Park location.  The final athlete to be interviewed for the winter season Shop Athlete Spotlight gamely fielded a number of unusually heavy questions and provided some truly insightful thoughts on topics ranging from parenthood to meditative horse riding to giraffes!

Coach Chad:  The first thing I wanted to touch on was you working out with Kenna, your daughter, because I saw Jack Brown as I was leaving- do you know Jack?

M.J. Hawes:  They guy who never wears a shirt?

Or shoes crucially!

That’s right, and he has a beautiful dog that is usually in the back of his truck.

Yes!  He and I actually had our (SAS!) interview in the back of that truck.  Well his father also works out at The Shop and they work out together.  So I reread his interview and we talked about what it was like to workout with your dad and one of the things that he said was that it brings him comfort to be there with his dad and know that he is taking care of himself.  

Ahhh yeah yeah!  That is so neat.

Kenna has been coming to class with you for a few months now; what does that dynamic mean to you and all that?

Oh man- That is such a good and multifaceted question.  I had been encouraging her to come give it a try for a while now because she is really into yoga and she was a swimmer.  I had been annoying and kept trying but one day, unsolicited, she said she wanted to go (to class).  So we decided to figure out which classes she likes and which coaches she connects with.  As you know, it turns out that she really likes the Strength classes and she really enjoys yours and Keith’s classes and I think she did have a lot of fun at a Fusion class with Bean a while back.  So to answer the question about what it means to me: as a parent to a kid that is about to launch and go out on her own, every chance I can get to do stuff with her that we both enjoy is such a treasured moment.  Also being the parent of a young woman, I think it is so powerful to learn your physical strength at such an early age and what you can do and just not be intimidated by those environments.  I certainly was (intimidated by the gym setting), so I did other fitness things instead of lifting heavy things  or even thinking that I could lift heavy things.  So I really appreciate how she has connected with it and how The Shop has been such a welcoming and non-intimidating community for her that she could just slip into the community.  Even though she is a beginner, she is getting this great advice and support from her coaches and the other members in the class.  She’s learning that all gym environments aren’t the same and that (lifting) is approachable, doable, and something you can do at an early age.

That is really interesting.  The neat thing for me is that I only see her once a week,  and so- you can tell what a beginner looks like- so to see her recently squarely not a beginner anymore has been really fun.

She is picking it up- she really has some chops!  I tell her that she is starting at a place that I was working my way towards even when I was double her age doing this whole weightlifting thing.  

I love seeing that in a young person- getting that confidence from weightlifting.  Now watching you two together, you appear just like any other pair of friends working out.  It seems like a very smooth relationship.  Do you guys have any gym related tiffs?  Like “MOM, What are you DOING?”

*laughing* Oh yeah!  You might not see it happening, but the whispers are there behind the scenes.  For example, she is pretty particular when we leave- like the workout can’t spill over the hour.  It is like she is time managing me.

Oh that is funny, I assumed it was the other way around with you two.

It is pretty funny.  Sometimes we just poke fun at each other, but we do have a good relationship in that way.  

It definitely seems like you have a good thing going on.  Do you have any other people that you’ve developed fun relationships with in class?

I just love our 6am crew- all the familiar faces.  We don’t necessarily spend a lot of time talking, but I feel like we have a shared connection just based on our shared commitment to the time and the space.  Seeing Michelle, or Shelly, or Virginia & Janani, Kelly, Doak, and Grant and all the folks that travel in that pack- everyone just gets along nicely and I really enjoy that.

That is something I always highlight when giving a tour- that you should try as many classes at different times as you can, but once you start to settle in you will find a gravity to the people you go to class with.

Yeah, isn’t that weird?  And my schedule has been weird lately, so I went over to a class at Manor in the evening and the class that was heading out was really boisterous and taking their time leaving, and then the class that I was in was totally subdued.  It was a completely different vibe.  It is so funny how it can be a completely different environment or energy.  

You mentioned before I started recording that you and Shelly and Michelle were thinking of forming a Brains & Brawn team.  What sort of advantage do you think that particular group might have?  Where would your strengths be?

We are some of the elder stateswomen of the larger community, so I’m thinking what we might lack from a pure power perspective, we have a serious advantage in longevity and wisdom on our side, so we can overcome.

Frankly, I don’t think the three of you are lacking on the power side either!

Well, yeah Shelly and Michelle are definitely strong, so they can bring it with brains and brawn.  I’m still working on the brawn!

Well, you’re damn sure getting there!  How did you come to Dane’s Body Shop?

I was working out at a gym in Tarrytown that had a similar format, and they did a good job, but they decided to change up their format completely and it wasn’t for me.  They had a very nice community- Alexis (Dacy) was one of them- and she came over (to Dane’s) from the same place.  So I tried it and went through that awkward newbie phase and there were a few moments where I didn’t know if I was going to keep going.  When you come into a new place and you’re trying to figure out where you fit in and what the norms are and aren’t sure if it is going to work out, but Michelle started shortly after that and we ended up being in similar classes and it was nice to have a newbie buddy that I could navigate that awkward phase with.

That is true even as a coach- Dane does this thing when he has someone he is considering hiring where he just gives them a free membership to see if they like what The Shop does, does The Shop like what they do.  Kind of an extended courtship; mine lasted like six months!  There was a day in the beginning when I came home from a hybrid class and my wife, girlfriend at the time, was home on a break from grad school and was like “how was that class at that place you might work honey?” and I just shushed her and shook my head as I walked to the bathroom.  She kind of followed me and I just started taking off my clothes and then, standing over the bath tub, proceeded to wring buckets of sweat out of them.  She was like, “what did they do to you???”.  Even as a coach, I had serious doubts at the beginning.  But after a week or two, I found some members that I really vibed with.  Some dude named Murphy I remember partnered with me several times and made it all feel more comfortable.

You hear about stuff like that all the time talking to members.  When I read your interviews I see how the community helps people to find that comfort.  It actually goes back to what I was saying earlier about Kenna- everybody is very supportive of wherever you are at.  It is like a “no judgement, all encouragement zone” and I really appreciate that.

Is she starting to find her own connections outside of you?  I know I am developing a fun little repartee with her.

Yeah!  She and Shelly talk and the other day I saw Doak very sweetly asking her questions.  I try not to be the helicopter mom and to just let her find her own connections.  I try to do that in general, so it is important to do it at Dane’s also!

That is going to be great practice for her going off to college and dealing with people of different ages.  I want to switch gears slightly- you’re in New Mexico often, why are you in New Mexico often?

I guess I just like it there.  I’m not from Texas, as you recall, but I really like living in Austin and hope to stay in the general vicinity for the duration, but I also like the change of scenery and we have the good fortune of being able to find another place.  Our criteria was that it had to be drivable-

It is Santa Fe right?

Yeah, we wanted to be able to take our dogs.  And it had to be a different climate- so when you draw a one-day-drivable map from Austin, there really aren’t many choices.  It was almost by default that we picked it.

There is an old Texas saying, “the sun has riz, the sun has set, and we ain’t out of Texas yet”.  Have you heard that one?

*big laughter* I hope you put that in the transcript so that I can remember that.

I’ll put it in just for your benefit!

Thank you!  So it is just a place to escape.

Aside from just the climate can you talk a little bit about the difference in like pace and feel from Austin?

There are similarities and there are huge differences.  Austin has such a youthful energy and vibe and Santa Fe is the opposite- it is a place people have historically retired to.  I always notice that out and about.  There was a gym I used to go to up there and we called it “the old man gym” because it was just where the seniors hung out to get their workout in and do their kibitzing.  It is also a little different because of its cultural heritage- the Native American population and the Spanish influence.  I think the things that are similar is that there is a strong fitness culture there-

Really?  I wouldn’t have guessed that.

Yeah, it is more like skiing and mountain biking- hiking.  They are taking advantage of the outdoor activities there.  Less from a gym perspective, but more people being excited to be outside and active.  The food also.

I always just think lots of corn and peppers when I think Santa Fe.

The diversity in cuisine is really changing!  Just like everywhere else in the “great migration”, people are moving out of west coast towns and settling there.  So it is diversifying in terms of its population.  So, for example, it isn’t difficult to find good Chinese food there or even decent Indian food.  And obviously the art scene- they are more visual arts as opposed to the music here in Austin, but I think there are spaces where they really respect and respect the arts.

Now I’ve actually seen you in Santa Fe because you took brilliant advantage of our virtual workouts during the pandemic- is there a difference between Santa Fe M.J. as opposed to Austin M.J.?

That is a good question.  Santa Fe M.J. is probably a little more chill because I’m working less- not on a schedule.  My family might say I’m easier to get along with because I’m not on a crazy work schedule.  Other than that, no-

You don’t arrive and magically channel the spirit of Georgia O’Keefe?

Oh I’ve got a hat I wear up there and some more Sante Fe style clothes.  

You also just got back from New York City and with that in mind it occurred to me that a revelatory question to ask someone is, “what did you do while you were in New York?”.  It is such an incredible city with so much of everything that you can tell a lot about someone by asking what they did with that opportunity.

That’s a great question!  Kenna was with me and we were back in northern New Jersey to celebrate my dad’s 92nd birthday.  That was the primary purpose of the trip- family.  Then Kenna and I went into the city because we hadn’t been in since the pandemic.  I was a little apprehensive because the city has suffered some set backs and crime is more abundant so I wasn’t sure what we were getting ourselves into.  

Like the Son of Sam summer?

Well actually, people are getting pushed onto subway tracks and stuff- not pretty crime!  But, it wasn’t as bad as people were depicting and we were in the subways with no issue. So we did four or five things: one is we went to the Neue Gallery which focuses on German & Austrian art and it is a really nice experience because it is a small gallery and you can really consume the entire exhibit unlike something that is so overwhelming like The Met.  Another highlight was obviously eating- trying to get caught up on some of the good eats there-

What were the food highlights? Because I think that says a lot too.

We still lament the quality of Chinese food in Austin, so we made sure to hit that.  Aside from our friends, Home Slice, down the street, the quality of pizza is still a work in progress in Austin, and we also did a nice Italian dinner as well.  So those were the priorities- and I hate to do this because it sounds a little materialistic, but Kenna and I did a little bit of shopping because she has some big events coming up around graduation.  So endless walking around and popping in places, just giving her a sense for the city.  And the last thing for me was a little bit of nostalgia, because I lived there after I finished school.  We walked by my first apartment and just by coincidence, on the corner of the block where my first apartment is, there is this really famous Ukrainian diner.  Given current world events we were excited to check that out as well.  A little bit of history, a little bit of food, and a little bit of commerce.

So what I’d draw from that is this is a well-rounded person who enjoys living life and has reasonable amounts of caution, but doesn’t let it inhibit them.  Very nice!  Speaking of things you need to be cautious about, I wanted to talk about horsies.  So you have taken up riding horses and you used to ride as well- talk a little bit about your history with these beasts and what you’re doing now.

I’m going to show you a picture of my horse- which I’m technically leasing so that just means I subsidize her lifestyle.  *passes me her phone to show me her magnificent pink and brown horse* That is Pinky- she is a warmblood which is a cross between a German warmblood and usually a thoroughbred of some sort.  I started riding when I was 5 or 6 and I was one of those crazy horse-riding girls.  I ride English- that is with the smaller saddles versus Western riders which is a bit more common in Texas.  It was my sport- I didn’t do traditional sports, that was kind of my rebellion against this sports culture in my hometown.  So I competed where I could and I used to jump horses.  I had to take a hiatus in college, but when I hit 30 I had enough disposable income that I could start doing it again, so I got a horse when my husband and I were living in San Diego.  I got really good at it again, but then I got pregnant with Kenna and it was time to hang up my boots for a while.  One of the reasons we were excited to move to Texas was that it might be easier for me to balance work and horses- living in California, it just wasn’t feasible.  Now that Kenna is ready to launch it felt like the right time to get back into it.

I love that you keep using the verb “launch”.

Yes!  I like that so much better than empty-nesting or the other sad terms.

Yeah, it is like you’re a NASA scientist.

Exactly!  Like I’m just shooting her off like a rocket into her adulthood.  

More epic.  So what does your riding these days consist of?

Getting my ass kicked basically!  Just trying to get my form and muscles back.  Riding is such a unique sport because you have to be in such good communication with your horse.  You have to figure out every horse and how they behave.  I really thought getting back into it would be easy because I’ve been doing all of these workouts at Dane’s and all of that is true but, you’re still using muscle groups that are `100% different.  It really does make a difference to have the core strength built up.  But still, I might be able to survive The Murph or Tire Tyrant, but sometimes just jumping around a course with a horse still takes my breath away.

And there is that element of unpredictability to it right?

Yeah, sometimes I think I’m being a real idiot because it is a really risky sport, but you only live once!

The great thing about barbells is they tend to not have a mind of their own!

Indeed, indeed- you are in control… most of the time.  So I’m just trying to get my form back and get more comfortable jumping the fences I jumped before.

Do you have any words for what horse riding means to you?  As someone who knows nothing about riding horses, I assume there is a major element of freedom to it.

There is some of that for sure.  I think for me the thing is you can’t be a hysterical mess around a horse because they vibe off of you and so you just have to be calm and in tune with another animal.  You can’t be thinking about other things, so for me it is a huge stress reliever and a way to wipe out what might be nagging you on a given day.  

That kind of relates back to something Anna (Grimes) said in my interview with her a couple weeks ago.  She was talking about how movement can be meditation.  She was kind of pushing back against the idea that stillness had to be a part of meditation.

100%, I can totally relate to her comment in that regard.  I feel like the fitness routines I have keep my stress and anxiety at bay.  The movement helps create the distraction to go into that (calm) space.  Being still, it is so much harder to control that monkey mind.

Just real quick, we’ve danced around the idea of you being busy at work and such and I know you work for Apple, so I just wanted to touch briefly on what you do.

I’ve worked with them since 2004, so I’ve seen a lot-

That is before the iphone!

Yeah, itunes was brand new.  Most of my time has been spent in customer experience and support, but now that I’m edging toward the twilight of my career I do people support.  I manage a team of about 150 people around the world who’s job it is to answer employee questions or concerns and making sure those employees get the needed information so they are able to do their job and not be distracted from day to day work.  Managing teams around the world is just a constant thing.

Managing the answer givers?  That feels like levels upon levels.

*laughing* Yeah, I suppose it kind of is.

And with timezones, I can see that spilling all over your day.

Oh yeah, I talk to Europe early in the morning and then I’m talking to Singapore and China in the evenings.  My schedule is definitely not my own, so I have to find windows and create boundaries.  But I love it and it is why I have so many apple t-shirts to workout in!

That is really interesting.  Well, we will move into a few random questions before we wrap up-

These are the questions I’m afraid of!

We talked about your relationship with horses.  If you were to pick an animal to represent you that isn’t a horse, what is the M.J. animal?

I’m going to say a giraffe- I really would have picked horse, but since you took that off the table, I went with giraffe because I think they generally have a fairly calm presence.  I’ve been told I have a calm presence and I think that just might be me being good at masking what is going on inside.  Giraffes hang out in smaller groups and I’m kind of a small group kinda gal.  I’ve been in so many professional development settings with personality tests, so I know I like to see things from the treetops.

I was guessing something to do with perspective would play into that answer.  What is your zodiac sign?

I’m a Leo, so a land sign.

Maybe it makes sense that you picked giraffe, cause I’m sure a lion would like a giraffe as well!  Maybe it is just because you are a calm person, but I don’t think of you as someone who swears a lot.  Do you have a favorite swear word?

*mischievous giggle* You’re right that I don’t swear too much, but historically it might be “goddamn it”.  There is a story that my mom & grandma used to tell where, apparently my mom would drop a “goddamn” frequently, because apparently when I was three the dog made me mad, so I pushed it and said “get out of my way you goddamn dog!”.  I think that one stuck in the lexicon.

I would imagine with your job in traveling that you’ve done karaoke a few times?

Oh god… no I avoid that at the plague.  That would be like my worst nightmare.

That is a helluva answer because I was setting myself up to ask if you had a go to karaoke song!

No!  I don’t even want to get on the stage.  I have to do a lot of public speaking for work and I really have to work on that.

Great answer!  Dinner party question: you have the chance to sit down with 1-3 people currently living or from history to dine and talk- who do you choose?

This is one I should have thought about ahead of time because it is a hard one.  Hmm… One is my dad.  No shade to my mom, but I would pick my dad.  Hmm… who else would I pick?  If I’m combining everyone together, I’m going to add Winston Churchill-

He’s on my list too!

Who would be the third?  Oh geez…  I don’t have a name that comes to mind, but the additional element I’d want to introduce into the party to throw some contrast into the old white male selections would either be a female historical trend-setter or innovator or a current one.  I’m struggling to think of.

I think Catherine The Great would be a solid fit with Winston anyway- I don’t know your dad.

That would be a good one.  Maybe something a little bit more contemporary, but that is the right direction.

I’m always intrigued when someone picks someone who is actually in their life.  Why your dad?

The short answer is, and I’d be happy to elaborate if you think that would be interesting, he has a really interesting life story and he is an extremely well-read and well educated person with diverse interests and knowledge.  Ever time I talk to him, I learn something from him.  

I’m intrigued enough, I actually do want to hear more.

One of the reasons he is an interesting man is he was a Roman Catholic Priest for twenty plus years in New York City before he met and married my mom.  He was very classically educated and has four different degrees in different areas.  He knows all the classics and has obviously led a very spiritual life, then when he turned forty he married my mom and didn’t have a dime to his name.  So he had to reinvent himself at the age of forty and became a parent of two kids and a working professional.  He had to leave a life that he grew up in and his departure was based on things that were really core to him and also some concerns about the institution he was representing and where that was going.  He made a major change and had a very interesting 2nd, 3rd, 4th chapter of his life.  

It is always kind of a shame when you hear the Catholic Priest punchline.  Very much deserved by the bad actors and the institution, but some of the most interesting people are Catholic Priests.  I think my first interview ever was a long form discussion with a Catholic Priest for a project in college.

They get great education.

I love talking to someone who can surprise me, and I was so surprised by this person.

(My dad) was part of the church at the time that was advocating for civil rights and participating in the marches and just being active socially.  He was in a cohort of people who bailed out all at the same time given the unfortunate things that were happening within the church.  A lot of his friends were former priests and nuns as crazy as that sounds.

I actually might need to update my dinner list to have your dad on it!  I read a lot of biographies and one of the things I’m morbidly fascinated by are last words.  What would your last words be?

I don’t know if I can come up with anything statement oriented.  I’d probably pick a couple key words about what I felt like my life and ethos is all about.  I’ll just react spontaneously to your question and say: “grateful” comes to the top of the list, “loved” I feel really privileged to have come from a really loving family and to live in a loving family now, and I would probably try to come up with some other word that represents my interest and care for others.

That is great!  That is a new one I’ve never asked before, so you had no way to prepare for it.  I was wondering if it was too hard a question- a little too heavy.

Well it definitely is heavy, but fortunately you asked it during my second glass of wine-

Not fortune, that is planning!

I should know, you’re the master.  Can I take the table and turn it on you and ask what yours would be?

Wow.  I did not expect you to take this table and turn it around on me.

Have another swig of beer, it helps the thinking process!

Then my final words would be, “Never try to turn the tables on an interviewer”.

Touché!

No, your answer is really great and I’m finding it hard to not be swayed by it.  Okay, so it being St. Patrick’s Day, it might be something like, “You may kill me, *switching to cartoonish Irish accent* but yer never gonna be able to get my Lucky Charms”!  So that is my bullshit answer and I’ll try to think of a better one.  That is actually a nice button to end on.  Did you have anything else you wanted to say that I haven’t already probed you on.

Just that I appreciate you and The Shop and the larger community and I’m so grateful that I found it and that I get to be a part of it!

And the feeling is mutual; we are better for having you in that larger community!